how is it...? (406 views)

[Casey]

Do i explain things clearly? like the meaning of what i am trying to say?


I mean, i understand some of the ways i have to deal with my flock are different than others and more drastic...


so tell me please, if this is clear to understand.... i am curious to see if it is my way of typing or whatever that makes something hard to get across?

Munch bites. Since clipping her, she doesnt want much hands on work with us, she doesnt care to come near us. Before when she was flighted, she would fly over to us to see what we were up to and everything... now she doesnt.

devin says its because she wants control over everything, and because i clipped her, she no longer has that control.

but i had to clip her, and she must stay clipped, because she is a safety risk to all the other birds. shes attacked mango, dally and tsuka.

also because the lovebirds are bonded, but cant share, they have to be caged separate again, but i have their view of eachother completely blocked off from eachother. why? because they pace all day and cling to the bars of the cage as close together and will not eat or play, which is not good for their health. so they must not see eachother. i cant move their cages across the room from eachother... they still pace if they can see the other! being separated from view, they eat and play and do normal bird things....

so we are fully taming them, especially munch. mango is easier to work with but he would still rather be with birds, so we are also introducing him to the tiels for out of cage time interaction. he's easier to solve problems with. he is happy to be out with the other birds, even if they dont go near him lol

munch however is not allowed out with the other birds. period. not even mango. her last bite to him was a nasty one, and i will not even risk that out of cage with them. shes drawn blood on him before over a perch, i will not chance his life over having them be out together. not worth it.

so we must become munchs companions... her interaction and social time... but she cannot fly to the playgyms for her out of cage time. we made the cages far out of her clipped reach so she cant get to the other birds. for their safety. however, she also cannot walk out of her cage because she goes over to mangos cage, and then the pacing and clinging starts and then mango gets toes bit! so thats not a good thing either. so we have to open her cage door and let her come out and then we have to towel her to carry her over to the playgym or for taming.... because she bites around her cage (her territory).

my problem is, she bites hard sometimes when stepping up away from the cage. hard. blood drawn and beak grinding biting... i just want to know how to lessen this damage... i know the bird aggression wont go away, i dont want help there. i know the cage aggression wont go away, thats a lovebird thing and i dont want help there either.

i want suggestions over the hand biting during taming....


i ask for this and i get things like "cant stop the bird hating or cage aggression", "she needs her own room" (cant, got cats plus no room), "stressful for her to be near other birds cages".... i just feel i am not explaining myself clear enough LOL


what do you guys think? is it because i explain every detail involved (directly, or indirectly) in the situation so i dont have to explain in thousands of posts why something wont work or whats going on that they dont understand my question?

but i feel that if i dont put those details in, i will get a LOT of questions and i prefer myself when trying to offer advice that i get as much detail from the poster as possible... just helps understanding the whole situation....


so how is it that i cant make myself clear?



so, what do you guys think? is there any suggestions you might offer to help with taming munch?


do you think its a fair idea since she doesnt have birds for companions anymore? or do you think its not worth the stress? ive been told too that its too stressful to tame parent raised birds and to just let it be.... but munch was handfed, but not socialized and she is interested in people... but clipping seems to have ruined part of the bond we used to have with her.

and in regards to the "too stressful thing" mango was parent raised, he'd rather be with birds but he is still ok with handling, stepping up, and he sometimes let me pet him, and he will take food from hands... slow going, but he seems to be comfortable and enjoying it... somehow i dont really agree with the "too stressful" thing... its possible to tame parent raised birds, even if it takes years...

do you think its more stressful to tame a parent raised bird or more stressful to leave a single bird with no companion.... i think i know which is more stressful longterm.... which is my concern....


thats my rant lol

[tielfan]

Sorry, I didn't notice this thread last time I was here.

You might be able to use positive reinforcement training (aka clicker training, with or without the clicker) to help Munch get over her fear of stepping up on a stick. You can also use it to reinforce stepping up onto your hand nicely without biting.

I have a brief overview at www.littlefeatheredbuddies.com/info/taming-clicker.html including a link to a section on problem behavior. For an in-depth description, this is an excellent book: www.amazon.com/Clicker-Training-Birds-Getting-Started/dp/1890948152 and this is an excellent yahoo group: pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Bird-Click/ The author of the book is one of the owners of the yahoo group, and all the info in the book is also available in the group's free Files section along with a lot of additional information. But the book is a lot more organized and easier to read than the files, and well worth the money. There isn't enough time in the day for the mods to teach every new member from scratch, so they do expect people to do some reading on their own one way or another.

[Casey]

i've tried clicker training with munch once before... but when she earns the treat and i go to give it to her she thinks the treats are my fingers lol

i will try to see if maybe shes grown up if it will make a difference now though, since i last tried when she was 4 months old

[tielfan]

If she's nippy you don't have to deliver the treat with your fingers. It's perfectly acceptable to let her take if off a spoon or from a pair of tweezers or whatever lets her get the treat without getting your fingers too.

[Casey]

definately worth a try! i will try clicker training again to see how it works.

shes intelligent, but stubborn!!! but i know deep down she can be a great pet!

[injood]

Woow so the separation didnt work ? Maybe fingers are the love of her life loool

[Casey]

then she treats her love of her life pretty badly lol

clicker training may be effective....

what i am doing is placing her on the playgym, then moving my finger as close to her as i can. if she bites i dont give millet. if she doesnt bite i say good girl (as the "clicker") and give her the millet. sometimes if i can touch her without getting bit, she gets two bites of millet before we try again. 50% of the time she doesnt bite on the first time, and she seems to respond well to it... i am hoping this will help her NOT bite my hands as much or as hard

[injood]

Amazing ! I hope she stops biting soo

[Casey]

me too!! it'd be nice for my fingers!

[tielfan]

Wow! It sounds like you're making a lot of progress in a short period of time!

Now all you have to do is hope that she doesn't decide that biting fingers is more fun than eating millet.